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	<title>Comments on: Together We Learn (Part I)</title>
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	<link>http://www.drmadelinedaniels.com/2006/11/05/together-we-learn-part-i/</link>
	<description>Psychologist CA PSY #16927, 530-873-4543</description>
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		<title>By: Dr. Madeline Daniels &#187; Together We Learn (Part II)</title>
		<link>http://www.drmadelinedaniels.com/2006/11/05/together-we-learn-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Madeline Daniels &#187; Together We Learn (Part II)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Apr 2007 15:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drmadelinedaniels.com/?p=19#comment-15</guid>
		<description>[...] This article is the second in a series. The first article is Together We Learn (Part I) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This article is the second in a series. The first article is Together We Learn (Part I) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Fairfield</title>
		<link>http://www.drmadelinedaniels.com/2006/11/05/together-we-learn-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Fairfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Feb 2007 17:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drmadelinedaniels.com/?p=19#comment-14</guid>
		<description>Dear Mike,
I hear what you&#039;re saying, but I wonder how you got the notion that a teacher has to dispense information about anything and everything as tho s/he were a &quot;walking encylopedia.&quot;  KNowledge can certainly deal with process; in fact, I think that the history of teacher education has been too long on content and too short on process.  I would encourage you to re-examine the works of Dewey, Whitehead and other process philosophers to learn the fundamentals of their epistemology.  Also, you might TRY to think through the fact that there are vast bodies of knowledge, and HOW either facilitator or &quot;teacher&quot; becomes enabling of access to same.  I personally think that the traditional notion of &quot;teacher&quot; is too obsolete to have much practical use.  Also, that the use of such an occupational &quot;title&quot; merely diminishes the value of same...as is illustrated by the amount of respect and cash that a teacher earns when compared with other professions for which extensive training/learning is necessary.  Also, try to think of teacher as LEARNER. In short, change the language of use to reflect the reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Mike,<br />
I hear what you&#8217;re saying, but I wonder how you got the notion that a teacher has to dispense information about anything and everything as tho s/he were a &#8220;walking encylopedia.&#8221;  KNowledge can certainly deal with process; in fact, I think that the history of teacher education has been too long on content and too short on process.  I would encourage you to re-examine the works of Dewey, Whitehead and other process philosophers to learn the fundamentals of their epistemology.  Also, you might TRY to think through the fact that there are vast bodies of knowledge, and HOW either facilitator or &#8220;teacher&#8221; becomes enabling of access to same.  I personally think that the traditional notion of &#8220;teacher&#8221; is too obsolete to have much practical use.  Also, that the use of such an occupational &#8220;title&#8221; merely diminishes the value of same&#8230;as is illustrated by the amount of respect and cash that a teacher earns when compared with other professions for which extensive training/learning is necessary.  Also, try to think of teacher as LEARNER. In short, change the language of use to reflect the reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Daniels</title>
		<link>http://www.drmadelinedaniels.com/2006/11/05/together-we-learn-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Daniels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jan 2007 19:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drmadelinedaniels.com/?p=19#comment-13</guid>
		<description>Mike:
It&#039;s funny the baggage and bias we bring to our understanding of words but it&#039;s sad when it shuts off our understanding entirely. Mike, I hope you can take the time to recognize when preconceived ideas and assumptions keep you from actually hearing what the other person is trying to say. Assuming you know how the other defines a word often leads us to inaccurate understanding.

I heartily agree with you that &#039;teaching competence and effective curriculum&#039; are fundamental to good education, and that teachers should also possess &#039;responsible humility, basic maturity and common decency.&#039; No argument there! My article was addressed to other teachers who were asking how to do that on a daily basis. Sharing knowledge is what teaching is about. Sharing research findings is another important part of knowledge. So I do think that &#039;sharing&#039; is an important factor in the discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike:<br />
It&#8217;s funny the baggage and bias we bring to our understanding of words but it&#8217;s sad when it shuts off our understanding entirely. Mike, I hope you can take the time to recognize when preconceived ideas and assumptions keep you from actually hearing what the other person is trying to say. Assuming you know how the other defines a word often leads us to inaccurate understanding.</p>
<p>I heartily agree with you that &#8216;teaching competence and effective curriculum&#8217; are fundamental to good education, and that teachers should also possess &#8216;responsible humility, basic maturity and common decency.&#8217; No argument there! My article was addressed to other teachers who were asking how to do that on a daily basis. Sharing knowledge is what teaching is about. Sharing research findings is another important part of knowledge. So I do think that &#8217;sharing&#8217; is an important factor in the discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Daniels</title>
		<link>http://www.drmadelinedaniels.com/2006/11/05/together-we-learn-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Daniels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 06:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drmadelinedaniels.com/?p=19#comment-12</guid>
		<description>Right Wing:

Sounds like somebody woke up on the wrong side of the rock this morning!  I can&#039;t believe I actually visited your site because I believed you actually had a serious comment! I realize that rudeness and brainless insults are an epidemic today, but the hypocrisy of your comment was even worse.

No, I didn&#039;t include all the research data supporting my ideas because it was an &#039;opinion piece,&#039; a response to a question someone else asked me. And, unlike you, I believe in dialogue between people. And of course it&#039;s &#039;agenda-driven&#039;. In other words, it has a purpose. I&#039;m clear about my agenda, which is passing along ideas and information that might be of use to others, ideas that might stimulate thought and facilitate self-motivated learning. I shudder to imagine what your &#039;agenda&#039; might be!

Is your Comment &#039;fact-free&#039;? Yes! It also appears to be free of any thought or use of the brain. It is full of assumptions and stereotypes, apparently because you&#039;re too lazy to actually think about any idea you haven&#039;t already thought of. (Hmmm. Sounds &#039;narcissistic&#039; to me.)

And the personal slurs against someone you&#039;ve never met! If you&#039;d bothered to read the site and get the background, you might have discovered that I&#039;ve been teaching since 1973, in a variety of settings and countries, and with various ages and interest groups. So my &#039;opinion piece&#039; (not &#039;research paper&#039;) was based on that work experience. But then again, your bias shows there too.

I suppose if my work and identity led to the label &#039;carpenter&#039; or &#039;mechanic&#039;, which are also good honorable professions, you would be afraid to criticize people who were feeling pride in what they do, in trying to do it well, and in contributing to the community at large. But your emotion-laden comments (&#039;bigot-babble&#039;?) reeks of an envy of someone who has actually taken the time to listen to other people and learn from them. I don&#039;t imagine you spend much time doing that!

Well, my passion is people, learning from them, passing their ideas along to others, and generally collaborating in my community&#039;s well-being. For well over 30 years, that&#039;s what I&#039;ve done, and Yes! I&#039;m proud I was able to help sometimes. You&#039;ve made it clear you don&#039;t approve of working together with other people so I can imagine your mindless criticism of the idea that working together, people can accomplish a positive goal.

But after reading your website as well as your Comment, and being aware of the type of envy you are venting (oh really! &quot;superior firepower&quot;?). what I&#039;m really afraid of is that if you start shooting every man whose brain, or other organs, is bigger than yours, you might get away with decimating the intelligent, virile male population! Thank God for law enforcement; I hope they can stop you in time!

I certainly hope you learn to think, even once, because you certainly can&#039;t think twice!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right Wing:</p>
<p>Sounds like somebody woke up on the wrong side of the rock this morning!  I can&#8217;t believe I actually visited your site because I believed you actually had a serious comment! I realize that rudeness and brainless insults are an epidemic today, but the hypocrisy of your comment was even worse.</p>
<p>No, I didn&#8217;t include all the research data supporting my ideas because it was an &#8216;opinion piece,&#8217; a response to a question someone else asked me. And, unlike you, I believe in dialogue between people. And of course it&#8217;s &#8216;agenda-driven&#8217;. In other words, it has a purpose. I&#8217;m clear about my agenda, which is passing along ideas and information that might be of use to others, ideas that might stimulate thought and facilitate self-motivated learning. I shudder to imagine what your &#8216;agenda&#8217; might be!</p>
<p>Is your Comment &#8216;fact-free&#8217;? Yes! It also appears to be free of any thought or use of the brain. It is full of assumptions and stereotypes, apparently because you&#8217;re too lazy to actually think about any idea you haven&#8217;t already thought of. (Hmmm. Sounds &#8216;narcissistic&#8217; to me.)</p>
<p>And the personal slurs against someone you&#8217;ve never met! If you&#8217;d bothered to read the site and get the background, you might have discovered that I&#8217;ve been teaching since 1973, in a variety of settings and countries, and with various ages and interest groups. So my &#8216;opinion piece&#8217; (not &#8216;research paper&#8217;) was based on that work experience. But then again, your bias shows there too.</p>
<p>I suppose if my work and identity led to the label &#8216;carpenter&#8217; or &#8216;mechanic&#8217;, which are also good honorable professions, you would be afraid to criticize people who were feeling pride in what they do, in trying to do it well, and in contributing to the community at large. But your emotion-laden comments (&#8216;bigot-babble&#8217;?) reeks of an envy of someone who has actually taken the time to listen to other people and learn from them. I don&#8217;t imagine you spend much time doing that!</p>
<p>Well, my passion is people, learning from them, passing their ideas along to others, and generally collaborating in my community&#8217;s well-being. For well over 30 years, that&#8217;s what I&#8217;ve done, and Yes! I&#8217;m proud I was able to help sometimes. You&#8217;ve made it clear you don&#8217;t approve of working together with other people so I can imagine your mindless criticism of the idea that working together, people can accomplish a positive goal.</p>
<p>But after reading your website as well as your Comment, and being aware of the type of envy you are venting (oh really! &#8220;superior firepower&#8221;?). what I&#8217;m really afraid of is that if you start shooting every man whose brain, or other organs, is bigger than yours, you might get away with decimating the intelligent, virile male population! Thank God for law enforcement; I hope they can stop you in time!</p>
<p>I certainly hope you learn to think, even once, because you certainly can&#8217;t think twice!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.drmadelinedaniels.com/2006/11/05/together-we-learn-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 04:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drmadelinedaniels.com/?p=19#comment-11</guid>
		<description>Sorry, but whenever I hear anyone use the term &quot;facilitator,&quot; I become deeply suspicious.  As a Texas teacher, I am reliant on local education &quot;Service Centers&quot; for most of my teacher training.  They are brim full of facilitators who most certainly do not know everything.  In fact, most appear to know virtually nothing.

Once again, I&#039;m sorry, but when I&#039;m paying for college, I want my professors to know a great deal.  It is only responsible humility, basic maturity and common decency to understand that one is not omniscient, however, I am not going to college to discover the wonders of my inner learning such that I can share my wonders with others.

Certainly, &quot;lecture and disgorge on test&quot; classes are ineffective and wasteful, but so is the curriculum of far too many schools of education.  Well informed adult guidance combined with teaching competence and effective curriculum will do the trick.  Oh yes, and it must be taught by people who are teachers and who are comfortable calling themselves teachers.

Students can quickly tell the difference between those who possess real knowledge and those who have faked their way to a doctorate and continue the fakery daily.  All too often, such people call themselves facilitators.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, but whenever I hear anyone use the term &#8220;facilitator,&#8221; I become deeply suspicious.  As a Texas teacher, I am reliant on local education &#8220;Service Centers&#8221; for most of my teacher training.  They are brim full of facilitators who most certainly do not know everything.  In fact, most appear to know virtually nothing.</p>
<p>Once again, I&#8217;m sorry, but when I&#8217;m paying for college, I want my professors to know a great deal.  It is only responsible humility, basic maturity and common decency to understand that one is not omniscient, however, I am not going to college to discover the wonders of my inner learning such that I can share my wonders with others.</p>
<p>Certainly, &#8220;lecture and disgorge on test&#8221; classes are ineffective and wasteful, but so is the curriculum of far too many schools of education.  Well informed adult guidance combined with teaching competence and effective curriculum will do the trick.  Oh yes, and it must be taught by people who are teachers and who are comfortable calling themselves teachers.</p>
<p>Students can quickly tell the difference between those who possess real knowledge and those who have faked their way to a doctorate and continue the fakery daily.  All too often, such people call themselves facilitators.</p>
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		<title>By: Right Wing Nation</title>
		<link>http://www.drmadelinedaniels.com/2006/11/05/together-we-learn-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>Right Wing Nation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 15:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drmadelinedaniels.com/?p=19#comment-10</guid>
		<description>[...] It&#039;s one thing when somebody spouts edubabble. It&#039;s another thing entirely when you&#039;re a deluged with a narcissistic, endless gushing stream of fact-free, agenda-driven drivel masquerading as education: Imagine designing a university that really helps the student learn. What do we need to consider in order to build such a vision? Three areas of focus immediately come to mind: the role of the faculty and their image, how we learn --our own individual styles, and whether we need to think about things learned alone or together with others, and how we apply what we learn. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] It&#8217;s one thing when somebody spouts edubabble. It&#8217;s another thing entirely when you&#8217;re a deluged with a narcissistic, endless gushing stream of fact-free, agenda-driven drivel masquerading as education: Imagine designing a university that really helps the student learn. What do we need to consider in order to build such a vision? Three areas of focus immediately come to mind: the role of the faculty and their image, how we learn &#8211;our own individual styles, and whether we need to think about things learned alone or together with others, and how we apply what we learn. [...]</p>
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